"The Crusades do not have the best publicity."

"Sitting in a leather armchair, with our twenty-first century way of thinking and the Enlightenment behind us, it is difficult to give an objective judgement of the Crusades. We Hungarians have to be especially careful about how we judge the Crusades, for if they had not happened, it is possible that the Muslim invasion would have hit us earlier, or that the flag with the horsetail would have been been hoisted here for much longer. We were liberated in the spirit of the Crusades. From the end of the fourteenth century, thousands of western soldiers died fighting against the Osmans for our region and for Hungary. The problem is that ideological thinking interferes with the objectivity of historians: many of them feel that they have to prove that everything to do with the Church in the Middle Ages was bad. No one says anything bad about the Trojan War, although it was also an example of European expansion, and yet epic and heroic poems have been written about it."

"Former American president George Bush was the last to use the term of Crusades in connection with the military intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan. No one will write epic poems about those."

"Bush was mistaken in that a crusade is not something that anyone can just start - only the Pope could announce it. Incidentally, the former president later apologised for using this expression. Moreover, talking about a crusade nowadays is nonsense. The point of view of the Catholic Church on this subject is crystal clear: we have put this era behind us, it is forbidden to kill in the name of Christianity. Even in the Middle Ages, some theologists questioned the legitimacy of war."

"And yet it seems as if there were some kind of similarity between the intervention in Iraq and the Crusades. The West wins its war in the Middle East, but loses peace."

"One of the most important elements distinguishing between the two is the legal basis. The crusaders went to liberate - at least that was how they interpreted it - territories that had belonged to the Christians just a few centuries earlier, and a large proportion of which were inhabited by Eastern Christians even in the 12th century. Thus, contrary to general belief, the crusade did not start out as an economic enterprise, but rather with a view to regaining the sacred places and aiding their Eastern Christian brethren. No one who thinks logically would ever write that the Europeans went there to colonize. You just have to look at the map: most of what lies beyond the coastal belt are barren mountains and wilderness. It would have been difficult to appease the supposed hunger for land of Europe's surplus population. Only the orders of knighthood could hold their positions in the Holy Land, for they were sustained by their huge estates in Europe. Quite often, the local Latin people sent the angry Europeans back, saying: We're living here in peace and do not want your crusaders here. The Christian states were basically created from enthusiasm, and when it ran out, they fell."

"You, however, have managed to win peace, for you have been working on the excavation of the Syrian fortress of Margat for three years now. Do you have hopes for being able to stay and work long term?"

"This kind of excavation cannot be planned for a period shorter than 10-15 years, but we are trying to make use of the local conditions and establish ourselves in Margat for future generations. We have already started to realize our long-term plans with the help of national inter-institutional cooperation: a world famous, permanent site for field exercise, headed by Hungarians, could be built here. And this wouldn't be money thrown out the window for the state, either."

"Exactly how much is this money which 'isn't to be thrown out the window?'"

"A two-month excavation season, under spartan conditions and with voluntary workers, costs ten million Forints. We cannot raise that much money here at home in a year. And yet, besides the conditions of research, it is important to note that it is from this castle hill that the Hungarian flag can be seen the farthest - this excavation is the center of international attention. Any Hungarian researcher or student who publishes on Margat is guaranteed to have an international reading public and this will eventually lead to other possibilities as well."

"And how long will the Hungarian flag be allowed to wave on Margat?"

"As long as we can ensure one excavation season a year, the Syrians will remain loyal to us, no matter which capital-intensive foreign institution tries to intrude. The Syrians are honourable, upright people, for them, trusting someone and being familiar with our work is worth a thousand times more than some wealthy institution. If other foreigners want to join us - we already have French, German and Croatian colleagues working with us at the moment - they can do so only under the Hungarian flag."

"But the Syrians are probably not all that partial to the red-white-and-green flag- a flag that represents a Western country (i.e. the colours of the Hungarian flag). Why are they generally distrustful towards other Westerners but not us?"

"Apart from the negative historical precedents, the tendency to treat the local researchers as second-rate still persists among some Westerners. In contrast, we Hungarians treat them as partners and friends. This is a very different world, one in which human relations, trust and responsibility are extremely important. This can be seen in the concession, which was concluded between Péter Pázmány Catholic University and the Syrian Archeological Board, but my name, Balázs Major, figures in it. I am responsible for everyone."

"If the Hungarian state were to back out, how could you get the sponsors to assist the excavations financially?"

"There are other forms of support, not just financial ones. The universities and research institutes see possibilities for research and new scientific results that can also be used in Hungarian education. The Johannites of Hungary would like Hungarians to deal with the glorious past of their order. However, what I think was the greatest motivating force was that many people understood what a great opportunity this was for such a small country, to get the largest Crusader fortress for research. What's more, Hungarian King Andrew II not only visited this castle during the crusade he went on, but the Hungarian Kingdom also provided it with an annual sum of 1000 silver marks. So it was built partly from Hungarian money. It's also true that this year is pretty bad for us financially, and we had to finance the summer excavation - which is the basic condition of the concession remaining in Hungarian hands - mainly from loans."

"Why is it worth a Hungarian company sponsoring the excavation of a Crusader fortress?"

"If a company is tendering in Syria, they examine where it is registered. The first thing they do is for the ministry of the economy to ask the ministry of culture for facts about the company and the country, to see what it has done in the field of culture. What did the Japanese do, for example, during the partial American embargo against Syria? They built a new embassy and requested five archaeological concessions. And from then on, their companies have been receiving lucrative economic possibilities. Syria is an emerging market, with practically no public debt to speak of, the world economic crisis can hardly be felt. Our results so far have news value not only in the Arab world, but also in the West, and even in America."

"If Japan is among the competitors, why did the Syrian government choose a Hungarian archaeological mission?"

"We've been working in Syria for more than ten years now, and we have won recognition in Syria not only for our research results, but also for the training of students. This year, during the excavations, we organised an archaeological camp for 17 students from the University of Damascus. When the camp ended, all the students wanted to stay with us. Their head of department announced that next year, he wants to bring 70 students to our excavation, which might be quite a challenge for us logistically, but then it's partly in order to train the young generation that we are working out there. Personal relationships are worth more than weapon arsenals or capital. Besides our professional results, that is another reason why we can be there."

"You always speak in the plural, although communal thinking is not always a Hungarian virtue. Don't the spartan conditions sometimes break up this unity?"

"This is serious and complex teamwork, where several dozen people work with all their might, without receiving any kind of payment. Virtually all the major specialised institutions and universities in Hungary are represented in our work out there. What I am most proud of, however, is that those who work there are all excellent, not only from a professional aspect, but also as people, and despite all the difficult conditions, esprit de corps prevails. This year, there were about fifty people out there, experts, researchers, volunteers - and all of them were enthusiastic and cooperative. The only issue they competed over was who could stay at the work area the longest, until the last bus brought him/her back to base. I was a member of the Saint Ignatius College for eight years, that is why I have always thought in terms of teambuilding. It's not worth worrying about the state of public life in Hungary today, for there are incredible reserves in this country, you just have to offer people a noble cause. Actually, I don't think this mission could have been organised by a Western European country, for this degree of altruism and enthusiasm is on the verge of becoming extinct there."

"Doesn't the presence of Christian Europeans in a Muslim Arab country cause tension?"

"In Syria, in the country where Saladin is a national hero for having beaten back the Christian forces, we are excavating the world's largest Crusader fortress. And yet the Syrian government asked us to excavate the Crusader fortress, not the Muslim one, for they consider the Christian era as one of the most important parts of their cultural heritage. As for the tension between cultures; in Hungary, we put up a statue of Suleiman the Magnificent, who was, of course, a great ruler, but from a Hungarian point of view he was a "butcher". So actually, we are a tolerant nation, that's why we shouldn't be surprised if other nations, like Syria, are tolerant as well."