- The change of the political system was made up of several important steps. In your opinion, why is it that the circumstances of opening the border are the most vivid memories in people's minds?

- The opening of the border set off a domino effect, leading to the unification of Germany, then of Europe. After all, this event overrode the international treaties that ended the Second World War. Those who were in power at the time managed to seize the opportunities that history offered them, they were real statesmen.

- Michail Gorbachev, Helmut Kohl and George Bush Senior - three grand old men have now met in Berlin.

- Taking into consideration their state of health, this was probably their last historical "summit". Many stressed the role of the people in this turn of events. After the Hungarian-Austrian border was opened, in the German Democratic Republic tens of thousands of people assembled outside churches and shouted "We are the people" in unison. Then a few days later, they were shouting: "We are one people". I can only compare this to the effect that Pope John Paul II's words had on believers in the Socialist countries, when he said: "Do not be afraid."

- Chancellor Kohl had tears in his eyes when you informed him of the opening of the border, but did President Bush know about it?

- No. When he was asked about it, he replied that perhaps the most well-informed circles of the CIA had known what would happen on the Hungarian- Austrian border, but he had not been informed about it beforehand. In July of 1989, during his visit to Budapest, I gave him a piece of the original Iron Curtain. He now told me with pride that it was in a place of honour in his museum.

- In the case of Gorbachev the situation is different; you could not have taken steps without his permission.

- I never asked him for permission. I went to Moscow on March 5th, 1989, and during our talks he acknowledged, among other things, the withdrawal of nuclear missiles and Soviet troops from Hungary. I also announced the dismantling of the technical border.

- What about the withdrawal of nuclear missiles?

- Following my appointment as Prime Minister, I also had to sign the Soviet-Hungarian nuclear agreement that Kádár and Brezhnev had concluded. That was when I decided to take the first opportunity to broach the subject of withdrawing the nuclear missiles next time I went to Moscow. They were withdrawn from the country in the autumn of 1989.

- This year, on August 20th, you and Péter Tölgyessy received the Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of the Hungarian Republic. Isn't it a bit morbid that you two, both involved in the change of the political system, but on different sides, received the award at the same?

- Although I was appointed by the single-party state, as of May 1989, no one told me what to do. I succeeded in getting Károly Grósz, General Secretary of MSZMP, and István Huszár, head of the Patriotic People's Front, to resign in a joint letter their right to appoint and relieve ministers. I replaced seven ministers in my government. Consequently, I do not consider myself the prime minister who was replaced due to the change of the political system. I would prefer to say that I was the last prime minister of the Hungarian People's Republic and the first - not freely elected - prime minister of the Hungarian Republic.

- This summer we asked Tölgyessy about this in an interview, for among the leaders of the former Socialist countries, you are the only politician to have received such a high-ranking award. The politologist explained it by saying there is a great difference between the way the other Eastern European countries and Hungary see Socialism. We feel we were well ahead of the others at the time, and now we're lagging behind. Do you think this is what has raised the value of your own past?

- I think you should ask those who gave me the award. I received the highest German order, the Iron Cross, a few years after my term as prime minister. The gesture that the head of state signed the document of the order on my birthday really meant a lot to me.

- Let's return to the ceremonies held by the Berlin Wall. Do you think the Wall really came down? Or is there still a political frontier between Eastern and Western Europe?

- There are no more walls physically speaking. Europe has created its own Union, and Hungary is a full member, just as it is a member of NATO or the Schengen countries. The walls"of the Eurozone still exist, but it's a totally different situation than 1989, for now it is only up to us when we pull that wall down.

Miklós Németh
Former prime minister

• Born in Monok on January 1948.

• He graduated from Karl Marx University of Economics in 1971. He also won a scholarship at Harvard.

• He joined the Hungarian Socialist Workers' Party (MSZMP) in 1976, ten years later, he was secretary of the Central Committee.

• He was prime minister from November 24th 1988 to May 23rd 1990.

• In 1990 he was elected as an independent Member of Parliament.

• Between 1991 and 2000 he was Vice President of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development.