"Does the statement of Imre Kertész, in which he denigrates the country, do Hungary and the Jews living here any good?"

"It has no direct effect on the Jews of Hungary. Of course, I'm sure it doesn't do Hungary much good, but you shouldn't blame the mirror for reality."

"Does that mean you agree with the statement that it is the anti-Semitic extremists who have the greatest say in how things turn out in Hungary?"

"I didn't say this was a good mirror. Not all mirrors reflect reality in its completeness, there are mirrors that distort. What Imre Kertész said is the value judgement of an 80-year-old man, and we must pay attention to it even if we don't agree with it."

"We thought you agreed with his judgement. You told the Commissioner for Human Rights at the Council of Europe that there were people who made racist, anti-Semitic remarks and yet could retain their membership in the faction of a parliamentary party that supposedly professes civic values."

"It is completely different if someone says that anti-Semitic public discourse has become prevalent in Hungary - I think that's actually an exaggeration - it's as if I said that racist slogans have become part of public discourse. This is a fact. And it is unacceptable that a representative of a parliamentary party (which represents a significant proportion of society), who frequently makes anti-Semitic statements, be allowed to sit in parliament. Maybe there was a jinx during the selection, or the MP's set of values changed with time, or it is only later that his way of thinking comes to light. But once it has, he cannot be nominated again."

"This has not happened. No decision has yet been made about the nomination of Oszkár Molnár, who talks about Jewish plutocrats."

"Well, no decision has been made about him not being nominated, either. If he were nominated, that would signify that this political circle finds anti-Semitic views acceptable, and yet I think that this is not so. I hope the decision proves I am right."

"Talking of unpresentable characters, you don't have to look far. Isn't the executive manager of the Jewish Hungarian Communities, Gusztáv Zoltai, the one-time member of the Workers' Militia, a bit embarrassing?"

"We have democratic rules, according to which the majority elects our leaders. If a person whom the other elected office-holder does not like is elected, then the person who has problems with the other official is the one that has to leave. The community decided that we should work together even though they were familiar with Zoltai's past. I accepted this decision."

"Then Fidesz could just as well nominate Oszkár Molnár, if he is the person whom the local organisation wants..."

"There is a basic difference, though. In our community, people belong together on the basis of their faith and/or their origin. Choosing a party, however, is a purely ideological decision, based on the way one views the world."

"Are you saying that the fact that one is a Jew is more important than an acceptable life course?"

"It's not that simple, you can't just pick a certain point in someone's course of life, but it is a fact that because of our common origin and cultural ties, we must cooperate in the interest of Jewry, even if we do not agree on certain points. There is a person who has - among other things - misappropriated the fortune of the religious community. Standing before the court, he had to be held down with force, as he wanted to hit me for being the witness for the prosecution. On the occasion of Yom Kippur, he returned to the synagogue. It's true that he is a criminal, but he is also a Jew who has come to pray and ask for forgiveness from the Everlasting God. I shook his hand with sincerity."

"It's interesting that your manager is a Communist when, in theory at least, your organisation is for religious Jews...

"In theory, it is, but they regard us, both in Hungary and abroad, as the general representation of Hungarian Jewry. The Jewish Community offers the basic infrastructure."

"So faith is not necessary?

"The institutional system is based on faith and the rules of our religion, but we are open to all Jews. If someone appears at the hospital, saying s/he is Jewish and needs help, we don't start to contemplate whether or not s/he believes in the Everlasting God."

"Can a non-Jew also apply?"

"As a general rule, no. The reason these hospitals, old people's homes and synagogues are maintained is so that Jewish people have somewhere to turn to. But many non-Jewish children attend our schools and we have campaigns: during Hanukkah, for example, we distributed meals to the homeless, we didn't ask anyone whether they were Jewish."

"Very noble. Returning to the concept of Jewish plutocrats: was it the generalisation that bothered you?

"Plutocracy is not Jewish. This is a typical anti-Semitic cliché."

"The intense advancement of Israeli capitalists does not really help to dispel this cliché. The investors of the Sukoró casino project stressed their Jewishness - instead of their business references - in their introductory material, while Shimon Peres negotiated about buying up Hungary..."

"One should not jump to conclusions and make judgements about Jews in general on the basis of the activities of individual Jews. What's more, someone who thinks that this is the most noteworthy part of the material evidently has preconceptions. It's true that Jewishness was stressed, but Oszkár Molnár's remark was made prior to the Sukoró-affair. Furthermore, this was before Peres' remark concerning the buying-up of Hungary, Poland, Romania and Manhattan."

"He had already made that remark by then."

"Even if he had already made the remark, it is a fact that no concrete sequence of events is needed in order for anti-Semitic remarks to be made. What's more, the majority of Jews living in this country regard themselves as Hungarian and Jewish at the same time, just as I do."

"If this is true, it is quite strange that just before March 15th 2007, you said that Jews should not go out into the streets to celebrate. Wouldn't you say this was inciting hysteria?"

"If you think about all that has happened since then on national holidays, you'll realize that my remark was very objective. One might even say it was a "Cassandra metaphor". Except for the most recent October 23rd, it was better to stay at home on all the national holidays. And not only for Jews, but for all citizens who do not wish to take part in skirmishes."

"So you weren't saying that Jews were in danger here, you actually meant that everyone was, but it was only your own people whom you had the right to warn about this?"

"That's right. As a Jewish leader, it was my duty to warn the members of my community about the danger threatening them. It was not accidental that the city was virtually empty during the public holidays. It was not only the Jews who said no to these kinds of things in Budapest."

"The government is responsible for law and order in the streets."

"We may say that the police did not do their job properly, but it is the people who repeatedly disrupted the celebration of these holidays who are responsible, the ranting, rowdy groups who seem like a crowd when they march. In fact, they constitute perhaps one or two percent of the demonstrators."

"Is it worth accentuating the differences even more by making ambiguous statements? In times of crisis, people have a tendency to look  for a scapegoat anyway."

"Anti-Semitism has not increased significantly in Hungary since the beginning of the economic crisis. Consequently, the spread of anti-Semitism cannot be put down to this alone."

"So what is the reason for it, then?"

"The reason for it is wilful expansion. There is an intellectual group belonging to the extreme right which is trying to convince young people that this is the direction they should take, the right one. The outdated relics of the 1930's, the anti-Semitic groups that started reorganising themselves in the 1990's, have been replaced by a professional group, one that speaks foreign languages and is at home in the world of the Internet."

"Your reaction to this is that freedom of speech should be limited. Two years ago, you deliberately stayed away from a dinner given by the head of state, because László Sólyom did not sign the law against hate speech."

"Our decision was carefully thought out. We could not accept one of the sentences of the argument, despite the fact that a learned jurist had written it. Everyone is entitled to the freedom of opinion."

"So people should have an opinion of their own, but they should keep it to themselves. Is that what you're saying?"

"Saying someone is stupid, a dirty bugger, or a rogue is not an opinion. If I said this about you in public, the court would condemn me. And right they would be in doing so, for I'd be offending your human dignity. But if someone says the same thing about a community today, they are not condemned. Hungarian rule of law is not consistent."

"So should Imre Kertész be put behind bars? If people cannot be insulted, he could be sent to prison for saying: "Hungarians have no idea what irony is."

"That is not racism. It's not even slander. It's a unique and unusual opinion. If, for example, Imre Kertész says that you don't understand irony, even if you were to prosecute him, he would not be condemned. The distinction is this simple. Hungarian courts can solve problems that are a lot more complicated than this: they would even be able to define which cases come under the law against hate speech and which don't. No one would have to worry about our Nobel Prize winner being taken to court, as has often happened in the past to our poet laureates."